Floyd Norman: Being back in the Disney family meant I could attend screenings of the ill fated animated feature and each new screening grew successively worse.
The directors began shifting the order of sequences as if that would garner a more compelling narrative.
Sadly, nothing appeared to help and the arrival of new Disney management in 1984 only drove the nail deeper.
http://floydnormancom.sq...5/4/1/the-black-cauldron
one of the storyboards for the alternate prologue for the film
The alternate narration for these storyboards made it's way to Disney and Sierra's Dos computer game from 1987 and promotional stuff for the film.
Lengthy excerpt from
Mike Peraza's comment to Celbi from the comment section of Mike Peraza's Caulrdron of Chaos article
mike perazaSeptember 9, 2010 at 3:15 PM"Yes there were multiple openings that were conceptualized by different people.
I worked with Don Griffith (Great Art Director) and Vance Gerry (an outstanding storyman and artist) on one version that showed the Horned King and his gang burning down a village. Sweeping flames were used as transitions between scenes of destruction.
We wanted a contrast to the peace and quiet of Taran's farm life.
Also worked on a dark version of faire folk that was kind of cool but gave the Horned King and the Witches too much competition by being creepy
(which made sense why they cut that version) along with a bright glowing version that looked like the fairies came off a cereal box."
(James Coleman's concept art. Could this be the "creepy" version of the faire folk scene?)
Mike Peraza's comment continued: "Talk about night and day concepts, lol. I think they kept the glowing faire folk.
I want to also add that we had a very talented layout staff along with story department that created a tremendous amount of beautiful art.
There was a lot of work to be shared and cut into the film as well as cut out."
The Black Cauldron Deleted Scenes Investigation (Part 1) - Soundtrack gaps and Jump-cuts.
a fellow from YouTube named Dennis has put together four videos investigating the deleted trims of Disney’s The Black Cauldron.
Warning: the last one in this video is very Indiana Jones’ Raiders esq violent. it has one the Horned King's barbarians get melted. (Even in the thumbnail picture on the YouTube video)
Excerpts from the documentaries Waking Sleeping Beauty (2009) and The Making of The Little Mermaid (2006)
Jeffrey Katzenberg: In the first couple of weeks I was at the studio, I saw The Black Cauldron. It was a very dark and a very troubled movie.
“This is just way, way, way too violent and too scary. You have to edit some of these things out.” They said, “Well, you can’t edit an animated movie.” I said, “well, of course you can.” And they said, “No you can’t.”
Excerpt from The Lookback Machine podcast
animator Phil Nibbelink: "I had a very complicated scene of one of the huntsmen turning into a deathless warrior landing on the ground and shaking, and all his flesh bubbling and boiling and dripping off. A lot of drawings very complicated.
And they got it all the way to color, and that's when Katzenberg came to look at the movie and the first thing he said, "You got to cut that scene out, my 3-year-old will be frightened by it."
That was a crying shame because so much work went into it. yeah, it was pretty abrupt."
Lengthy excerpt from
Mike Peraza's comment to Chris from the comment section of Mike Peraza's Cauldron of Chaos article
I have to say that I believe the extended gory Cauldron born scenes were cut out for a good reason, they just looked bad.
They were not only on the more grotesque side visually but animated through and into slow holds along with color models that were realistically and unimaginatively stark as opposed to more inventive lighting and color.
I would have liked to seen more shadows of the undead coming to life and then intercut some shocking but sparsely lit creatures that would crawl in and out of shadows.
They were not only on the more grotesque side visually but animated through and into slow holds along with color models that were realistically and unimaginatively stark as opposed to more inventive lighting and color.
I would have liked to seen more shadows of the undead coming to life and then intercut some shocking but sparsely lit creatures that would crawl in and out of shadows.
I wish they had played on the horrified reactions to the undead from their "victims" rather than linger on the creatures themselves.
Sometimes an evil force can be hidden partly from the audience and have a much greater impact in my opinion.
Sometimes an evil force can be hidden partly from the audience and have a much greater impact in my opinion.
A good example of this would be the monster from Ridley Scott's "Alien" classic which was seen only in snippets here and there but had an enormous chilling effect on the audience.
If it had been held in sharp brightly lit rooms, it wouldn't have had the same effect.
If it had been held in sharp brightly lit rooms, it wouldn't have had the same effect.
Lengthy excerpt from Mike Perza's Cauldron of Chaos article
I had that section timed so I knew when it would come on screen after the picture began.
I brought along a few of my closest cronies to enjoy my hunch. We stood in the back of the theater until the film began, then left quietly and snuck up to the third floor. There had been sightings of "suits" on the third floor so we had to be on the look out for anyone wearing a tie. As we slowly approached the zombie, er... zero hour, we looked to the theater below. Right on cue, the doors opened and a mom was angrily leaving with her two wailing children in tow. She was followed by another, and soon there was a sizable exodus of crying kids and upset parents fleeing from the theater. You couldn't hear what they were saying but I doubt it was along the lines of, "If only they could have held longer on the decayed flesh dripping off that cute zombie's face. I can't wait to go out and buy some happy meals of those incredibly entertaining undead fellows." By this time a security guard had been making rounds and gave us the stink eye so we hopped back downstairs to our domiciles chuckling all the way. Afterwards as the directors and producer met, they didn't need to read the ARI cards to admit that particular problem and the un-dead sections were quickly cut down and in some cases cut out completely. Unfortunately those simple cuts could not repair the rips in the fabric of the storyline or magically make the film the fantasy epic it should have been.
another video from Dennis
in the pencil test at the end of this video Fflewddur's voice in the end doesn't sound like Nigel Hawthorne. To me Fflewddur's voice sounds like one of Disney Character Voices International.
from the bonus features section of the 25th anniversary DVD of The Black Cauldron
a reconstruction of sorts by Disney Home Entertainment. The voice work sounds like Disney Character Voices International. not those of the film's original voice cast.
according to the documentary Backstage at Disney (1983) producer Joe Hale mentions that Jonathan Winters is the voice of King Eidilleg.
In the final film Jonathan was replaced by Arthur Mallet.
the work in progress voices are likely lost. (even Jonathan Winters' voice work)
Lengthy excerpt from
Producer Joe Hale's comment to Jeff from the comment section of Mike Peraza's Cauldron of Chaos article
bevhale September 17, 2010 at 6:53 PM
Jonathon Winters did record the dialogue for King Eiddieg, and it was cut into the work reel. I made the decision not to use him because his voice was too recognizable.
It always bothers me when I can recognize the voice of an animated character. I feel it conflicts with the believability of the character.
Management wanted me to use big stars for the voices of the Witches such as Bette Davis or Lauren Bacall. As you know, I did not use a star, but, rather, I found three ladies whose voices suited the characters.
I have a copy of the work reel of the second half of the picture where many of the cuts were made. It's too bad that it cannot be seen by fans of TBC.
Joe Hale, Producer TBC
http://michaelperaza.blogspot.com/2010/09/cauldron-of-chaos-part-3.html
excerpts from
Starlog Magazine Issue 097
August 1985
article: Animating "The Black Cauldron"
By Brian Lowery
https://archive.org/details/starlog_magazine-097/page/n63/mode/2up
Deja worked primarily on the film's opening segment and on Taran throughout.
"I also did the final version of the Fairfolk sequence and some of the witches at the end, which was the most fun." he says.
The Mention of the Fairfolk sequence draws groans from both animators--as they remember a scene which was done and redone again and again.
"There were lots of changes, nothing but changes," Deja acknowledges. "There were whole sequences cut that were halfway animated. There was major surgery throughout the whole thing."
It was, undoubtedly, a baptism of fire for nearly everyone who worked on the film. Hale compares Cauldron to the classic Fantasia in terms of difficulty.
"It was hard to train animators on this picture," Hale admits. "I wasn't sure we were ready to do it. The new animators not only had to be as good as people with 30 years experience who had just retired, they had to be better, because this is a more difficult picture.
"Fortunately, we had enough young animators with that raw talent, but it still took a long time to get them going."
another video from Dennis
I simply adore your blogspot and want to than you for your dedication to such an underdog film that deserves some great attention.
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